‘Meet the Press’ transcript for Oct. 7, 2007

Mayor RUDY GIULIANI (“Live From City Hall ... With Rudy Giuliani,” WABC Radio, 1994): It really is absolutely astounding that the NRA continues to have influences in areas in which they make no sense at all.

MR. RUSSERT: Far different from his appearance at the NRA last week.

MR. KOPPEL: You think? Just a—you know, the...

MR. RUSSERT: What do we do as journalists to try to cut through this?

MR. KOPPEL: The amazing thing is, you see story after story after story, especially from the New York press, which after all knows Rudy Giuliani pretty well from his years as mayor, and he’s not the most popular fellow in town. And he has certain eccentricities, shall we say, that the New York press has highlighted over the last few months. Doesn’t seem to be making a dent anywhere else in the country.

MR. RUSSERT: Why?

MR. KOPPEL: It beats the hell out of me.

MS. CARLSON: You want a uniter, and he looks like a winner now. And so his political and social heresy, voters in the base are willing to overlook. And if you look at the poll, the second question, “What’s most important to you?” Republicans will say it’s defense and terrorism, and that’s Rudy all the way, so they’re—they just want to unite behind someone. This has scared them, this fractious primary. They’re usually behaving like Democrats are behaving, which is uniting early. So I think that explains why they’re willing to overlook everything.

MR. RUSSERT: And what generally happens in a campaign is that Giuliani’s opponent would say, “Hold on a second. Those aren’t the view you had when you were mayor of New York.” The difficultly is, Mitt Romney is one of his opponents, and Mitt Romney, when he was governor or Massachusetts, had many similar views. The Log Cabin Republicans, who are gay Republicans, have purchased an ad what they believe is the truth about Mitt Romney. Let’s watch that.

(Videotape of Romney political ad)

Voice #2: For years, he’s fought conservatives and religious extremists. Mitt Romney:

MR. MITT ROMNEY: I believe that abortion should be safe and legal in this country. I believe that since Roe v. Wade has been the law for 20 years, that we should sustain and support it.

Voice #2: Mitt Romney opposed the gun lobby. Even Ronald Reagan.

MR. ROMNEY: Look, I was an independent during the time of Reagan-Bush. I’m not trying to return to Reagan-Bush.

Voice #2: A record fighting the religious right. A pro-choice record. Massachusetts values. Mitt Romney.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: David Brody:

MR. BRODY: Massachusetts values. You know, you know, I would say this, that listen, he has so many people against him, so many groups. I mean, it’s not just the Log Cabin Republicans, but it’s the Massachusetts Democrats, it’s the Democratic National Committee, it’s his fellow Republicans that are running against him. I mean, you can make the case that Mitt Romney has more people going—and groups going against him than Rudy Giuliani at this point. Now, the Romney campaign will say, “Well, that’s because they know he’s a threat and they know he’s going to win.” But what Mitt Romney needs to do is change the narrative. And the question is, has the flip-flop narrative that’s been so prevalent over the last six months, will that continue? He wants to make it on the competent CEO narrative. You know, the guy that’s a—that can come into Washington and change things. That will be very important as we go forward in Iowa.

MR. RUSSERT: But David Broder, if you run for mayor of New York, or if you run for governor of Massachusetts, you have to espouse beliefs, views, a philosophy, and people elect you. Then you run for president and say, you know, that was for that state or for that city, but now I’m a different person with different views?

MR. BRODER: It’s a difficult transition and we’ve seen that in the past. Also, Tim, when Bill Clinton was running, some of this positions that he took as governor of Arkansas, a pretty conservative state, did not help him win the Democratic nomination against more liberal candidates. So he had to do that—make that transition. But the most striking case was probably Jimmy Carter, who ran almost as a segregationist in Georgia when he was running for governor of Georgia, but then when he ran for president, locally for him had black, African American, credible people from his home state of Georgia who vouched for him, “This guy is for real. You can trust him.” And that’s how Carter got nominated.

MR. RUSSERT: Fred Thompson, a late entry into the race and second place in Iowa and the national polls, a little bit rusty on the campaign trail, Ted Koppel. He was asked about the Terri Schiavo case in Florida, and said “That’s ancient history, I’m not familiar with it.”

MR. KOPPEL: No fire.

MR. RUSSERT: He was asked about this, about—and he made this comment at the Soviet Union. “I’m afraid that the Soviet Union and China are not ever going to do anything that’s going to hurt them” “badly but we need to ratchet” up those “if at all possible.” The Soviet Union having gone out of existence in 1991. What’s the problem there?

MR. KOPPEL: Well, the problem is he seems to have been living in a cave for a little while. I mean, we and the, and the Chinese now are so interwoven—I’m leaving tomorrow morning for China, because we’re going to do our next programs on that subject. There is no way that you can—that you can unravel the relationship, economic and otherwise, with China, even if you wanted to. And the notion that China and as, as you correctly point out, a Soviet Union that doesn’t even exist anymore, are the threats we have to worry about, that’s, that’s problematic for him.

MR. RUSSERT: David Brody, Fred Thompson was in Des Moines talking about gay marriage, and his answer is that if the states decide they want gay marriage, and the legislature passes it, the governor signs it, so be it. How’s that going to play with evangelical Christians?  MR. BRODY: Yeah, I mean, I think to a certain degree it was a little flip, those words, “so be it.” You know, the reality is, the Thompson campaign will say, “Well, well, who’s the better choice?” I mean, I mean, they were concerned for a bit here with Mike Huckabee. But when those numbers came out where he raised about a million dollars, there seems to be more of a, of a, a wait and see attitude now with Huckabee. So there’s, there’s a concern, there’s no doubt about that. But I think with Thompson, you know, he’s trying to fit the federalism issue regarding marriage, and he’s trying to weave the two together. And you know, for Fred Thompson, this is all about first principles. I mean, what he’s going to say is, whatever the situation is, whether it be marriage or anything else, it’s going to fit my first principles. Will that be enough? Will this—the idea that it’s generic enough for the voters is—really does remain to be seen.

MS. CARLSON: Well, he’s an intellectual conservative, and I’m not sure that’s going to play with the conservative base that he has to excite right now. You know, if the campaign is a pop quiz, Fred Thompson’s not going win it, because as Ted says, maybe he’s gotten a little rusty playing on, on “Law & Order.” But his, his positions should appeal to a certain conservative element, which is the, the federalism. I think, you know, he has to take a page from Hillary for this debate this week, which is he actually has to do his homework. And maybe clap the erasers. I mean, he needs to really be sharp and know what he’s talking about in this next debate.

MR. RUSSERT: This Tuesday, the first time he’ll be on stage with his fellow Republicans.

MS. CARLSON: Exactly.

MR. BRODY: And he’s got—what he’s going to do is he’s going to paint a different picture. I mean, he’s going to say that, you know, when it comes to Mitt Romney and to Rudy Giuliani, that they have not been a consistent conservative like he was in the ‘90s, and so that, that’s going to be a big part of it, as well.

MR. BRODER: And they have pulled him off the road the last four days to get him ready for this Tuesday night debate. They understand that this is a really important test for Thompson.

MS. CARLSON: With Senator Al D’Amato, a real tough guy.

MR. BRODER: Yes.

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