‘Meet the Press’ transcript for Nov. 11, 2007

SEN. OBAMA:  You know, I have not talked to him since he got into trouble with the law.

MR. RUSSERT:  Period.

SEN. OBAMA:  Never had a conversation with him.

MR. RUSSERT:  Let me ask you about the issue of gay marriage.  John Lewis, who you called a living saint, said this:  “I’ve heard reasons for opposing civil marriage for same-sex couples.  Cut through the distortions and they stink of the same fear, hatred and intolerance I’ve known in racism and in bigotry.

“Some say let’s choose another route and give gay folks some legal rights, but call it something other than marriage.  We’ve been down that road before in this country.  Separate is not equal.  The rights of liberty and happiness belong to each of us and on the same terms without regard to either skin color or sexual orientation.” You agree?

SEN. OBAMA:  Well, look, here’s what I believe.  John Lewis is—his sentiments are exactly right that we have to provide equal rights for gays and lesbians in this country, and I have consistently fought for that.  I was a co-sponsor of the human rights ordinance in Illinois that eliminated discrimination on the job, in housing and other areas for gays and lesbians in Illinois.  I have championed every single piece of legislation that would expand the same rights to gays and lesbians.  I have not said that I was a supporter of gay marriage, but I am a strong supporter of civil unions, and I would, as president, make absolutely certain that all federal laws pertaining to married couples—benefits pertaining to married couples are conferred to people who—same sex couples who have civil unions as well.

MR. RUSSERT:  And yet you had a group of supporters on a Bible tour in South Carolina headed by a singer called Donnie McClurkin...

SEN. OBAMA:  Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT:  ...who said that homosexuality was a curse and that he had been cured by prayer.  Do you believe homosexuality’s a curse?

SEN. OBAMA:  No.

MR. RUSSERT:  Do you believe that it is something that you are born gay and that—or that you can change your behavior?

SEN. OBAMA:  I do not believe being gay or lesbian is a choice.  And so I disagree with Reverend McClurkin.  But understand, Tim, part of what I hope to offer as president is the ability to reach to people that I don’t agree with, and the evangelical community is one where the Democratic Party, I think, we have generally seen as hostile.  We haven’t been reaching out to them, and I think that if we’re going to makes significant progress on critical issues that we face, whether it’s education or healthcare or energy or our foreign policy in this country, we’ve got to be able to get beyond our comfort zones and just talk to people we don’t like.  And—or just talk to people we like, or people that we agree with on every single issue.  And so when I—one of the things that I’ve tried to do is to reach out to the evangelical community and tell them very clearly where I disagree.  I’ve talked to African-American ministers.  There’s a problem of homophobia in the African-American community. I will go into churches, I will go into meetings with ministers and say, “I disagree with you on these issues.  This is not how I interpret my faith.” But the fact that we’re having a conversation, I think, allows the possibly that I will change their minds, make them more tolerant of these issues.  They may not agree with me on this, but ultimately, it allows me to bridge some of the cultural divisions that have, I think, prevented us from making progress in this country for so long.

MR. RUSSERT:  We are here in Iowa.  Your wife, Michelle Obama, has spent a lot of time campaigning here.  And this is what she said.  “Iowa will make the difference.  If Barack doesn’t win Iowa, it’s just a dream.” This is must-win.

SEN. OBAMA:  Well, we want to—we have to do well in Iowa.  Now, keep in mind when Michelle goes to New Hampshire or South Carolina, I think she says—you know, she probably says the same thing there.  The early states are critical to us because, you know, I am not as well-known as Senator Clinton and some of the other candidates in this race.  And my biography is not known, what I stand for is not known as well.  What theses early states allow me to do is to not only present what my agenda is for change in this country, but also it allows me to listen and learn from the American people, and it has been a powerful journey traveling around places like Iowa, where, you know, you go to small rural towns, they’ve got the values that are—that, that have built this country, and yet they feel entirely forgotten.  You know, they’re working harder for less, they are having more trouble saving and retiring...

MR. RUSSERT:  But, Senator, it’s must—it’s must-win.

SEN. OBAMA:  Oh, well, there—look, there is no doubt that we have to do well in Iowa.  If we do not do well in Iowa and New Hampshire and South Carolina...

MR. RUSSERT:  Race is over.

SEN. OBAMA:  Yeah, well, I think that’s true for any of the candidates.  I, I don’t know a candidate out there who thinks that they can lose Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina and still be successful.

MR. RUSSERT:  Do you believe that Hillary Clinton could win a, a November election?

SEN. OBAMA:  Yes.  You know, I’m not somebody who believes that she can’t win.  I believe that it’s going to be harder for her to win, because I, I think a lot of voters go in with some preconceptions about her that are going to be very over—very difficult to overcome.  And I also believe, more importantly, I don’t—it’s not just a matter of winning, it’s can you create a new working majority for change?  I want to provide health insurance to every single American.  We can’t do that with a 50 plus one majority.  I want to get serious about climate change.  We can’t do that with a 50 plus one majority. I believe I’ve got a better chance of any other, other Democratic candidates to transform the political landscape in a way that has been done in the past.

MR. RUSSERT:  We will be watching.  We thank you for joining us and sharing your views.

SEN. OBAMA:  Tim, it was terrific being here.

MR. RUSSERT:  And our viewers should know, all the major presidential candidates except Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney have appeared here for in-depth interviews as part of our MEET THE CANDIDATES 2008 series.  Mr. Giuliani and Mr. Romney have both personally promised they will appear within the next few weeks before the Iowa caucuses.  We will look forward to having them share their views with you, the viewer.  And we’ll be right back.

(Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT:  And our thanks to the great folks here at WHO-TV Channel 13 in Des Moines.  That’s all for today.  If it’s Sunday, it’s MEET THE PRESS.  As we leave you this Veterans Day, we honor all men and women who’ve served, and remember those who paid the ultimate sacrifice for our country.

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