'Meet the Press' transcript for April 6, 2008

MR. RUSSERT:  Governor Rendell, The New York Times asked Democrats all across the country last week who will be the strongest Democrat, the "best chance at beating John McCain?" Look at this:  Obama, 56%, Clinton, 32%.  Those are Democrats across the country.

GOV. RENDELL:  Well, Tim, I don't think they're doing the electoral math very well.  We elect a president of the United States, as we learned in 2000, by the electoral college.  And no Democrat can win the electoral college without carrying three of the four big states--Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida and Michigan.  Assuming Senator Clinton wins in Pennsylvania, she will have demonstrated, and she's running way ahead of Obama against McCain in all four of those states, and those are crucial and that's why she's the strongest candidate in the fall, without question.

SEN. CASEY:  Tim, let me, let me just respond to that.  I think the governor's making a point that the, the Clinton campaign has made.  You cannot predict a general election based upon a primary.  It's a basic rule of, of politics.  And they could make the claim that, that she's run strong in some big states in a Democratic primary.  But that is no predictor whatever of what happens in the fall, in my judgment.

GOV. RENDELL:  But, Tim, it's not just, it's not just the primary.  If you'd see the matchups in these polls, in Ohio, Obama trails McCain by six points, Senator Clinton's ahead by five points.  In Pennsylvania, same thing.  In Florida, Michigan, the same thing.  She runs better and is more likely to carry those big states that you can't win--a Democrat cannot win the presidential voter in the electoral college without them.  And that's what the superdelegates are--have to consider:  who's the best candidate to put together the electoral map in the fall.

MR. RUSSERT:  The, the Obama people counter, Governor, that they have a chance to win Virginia, they have a chance to win Colorado, they have a chance to win--they have a chance to win states, broaden the electoral college map, that Senator Clinton can't do.

GOV. RENDELL:  Yeah, but I don't get that because some of those states are Arizona and New Mexico, and Senator Clinton won Arizona and New Mexico.  She won Arizona pretty handily.  So I don't understand that, that math that they're saying that they're the best candidate to carry those states.  They didn't carry half of them in the primaries.

MR. RUSSERT:  So Senator Clinton could not win, then, Missouri and Connecticut and Colorado and the 28 contests that Obama won in the fall?

GOV. RENDELL:  Oh, Tim, don't, don't misunderstand me.  I have disagreed with people who said that Senator Obama can't win Pennsylvania.  He can, and if he's the nominee, Bob Casey and I will be working together with every ounce of energy we have.  But Senator Clinton is more likely to carry Pennsylvania. She's more likely to carry Michigan and Ohio and Florida and the key states that we have to win.  Senator Obama was losing, just 10 days ago, was losing New Jersey to Senator McCain and even in Massachusetts.  No Democrat can survive with making those two states toss-ups.

SEN. CASEY:  Tim...

MR. RUSSERT:  First--go ahead.

SEN. CASEY:  If we judge candidates based upon polls months ahead of time, they'll be--some of us wouldn't be sitting here.  And I think there's no question about it, both of these candidates are very strong.  They're both very transcendent figures that can overcome a lot of divisions, and I think Senator Obama has the ability, as a general election candidate, to get votes that Democrats have never gotten before.  He's already proven that.  He can attract Republicans and independents.  And he will need that to govern and to bring about change.

MR. RUSSERT:  Before you can run in November, you must be nominated.  Let's look at the state of the race.  Thus far, elected delegates:  Barack Obama, 1416; Clinton, 1252.  Superdelegates, 224 Obama, 255 Clinton.  Total, 1639-to-1507, a net advantage Obama, 132.  Contests won, it's 28 for Obama, 14 for Clinton.  The total vote, cumulative thus far, 13.4 million, Obama; 12.7, Clinton; 49-47.

Senator Case, if Barack Obama goes into the convention ahead in elected delegates combined with superdelegates, having won more contests, and has the popular vote lead as well, can he be denied the nomination?

SEN. CASEY:  Oh, I don't think he, he could or should be.  Look, this, this is a race, in the end, about delegates and votes.  He's been, as you point out, in terms of popular vote and delegates, and in terms of number of states won.  By every relevant measure, he's ahead in this race.  And I think that's where it will, will be when we get to the summer.  I don't--I hope we don't go to the convention, though.

GOV. RENDELL:  I, I disagree.

MR. RUSSERT:  Governor, Governor...

GOV. RENDELL:  I disagree.

MR. RUSSERT:  Governor Rendell, let me ask you a simple question.  If Barack Obama, at the convention, is ahead in elected delegates, ahead in contests won, and ahead in cumulative popular vote, could the superdelegates still nominate Hillary Clinton?

GOV. RENDELL:  Sure.  It depends on what trends are happening.  And number one, Hillary Clinton's ahead in electoral votes, states carried with the most electoral votes, number one.  Number two, popular vote, I think the popular vote will narrow decidedly in the next seven or eight contests.  And if you count Florida and Michigan, in truth, Hillary Clinton would've won the popular vote.

MR. RUSSERT:  Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait.  Stop there.  Stop there, Governor, because Senator Clinton tried that yesterday, in terms of the goalposts.  This is what she said in Oregon about Florida and Michigan.

(Videotape)

SEN. CLINTON:  Now, some say their votes should be ignored and that the popular vote in Michigan and Florida should just be discounted.  Well, I have a different view.  The popular vote in Florida and Michigan has already been counted.  It was determined by election results.  It was certified by election officials in each state.  It's been officially tallied by the secretary of state in each state.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT:  Two people had a different view of that recently.  Here's Hillary Clinton back in October:  "You know, it's clear this election they're having in Michigan is not going to count for anything." And here's February 24th, 2008, Ed Rendell.  "You can't make any argument in Michigan because Hillary was the only person who was on the ballot.  I'm as avid a Hillary supporter as there is, but I don't think we can make an argument in Michigan."

GOV. RENDELL:  I think that I was talking about seating the delegates.  You can't seat the delegates in Michigan because she had no one on the ballot against her.  You certainly should seat the delegates from Florida, where she won by 300,000 votes, where the Florida Democrats did nothing wrong.  It was the Republican governor and the Republican legislature that brought that primary into January.  The Florida Democrats wanted to bring it to February 4th.

But we can settle this, Tim.  We, we can settle it, Bob, you and I can settle it right now.  Let's revote in Michigan and Florida.  We're willing.  The Clinton campaign is willing to test our popular vote mandate.  Let's revote in Florida and Michigan.  What's wrong with that?

MR. RUSSERT:  But, Governor, I want to make sure I got this down.  You've said you can't seat the delegates in Michigan, but you can count the popular vote, even though Obama wasn't on the ballot?

GOV. RENDELL:  Right, because, Tim, you're running against yourself.  That's the hardest thing.  You can ask any politician.  What's the hardest contest to run against?  It's Bob Casey vs. we don't like Bob Casey.  Hillary Clinton got 55 percent of the vote in Michigan.  But I'm willing to, I'm willing to...

MR. RUSSERT:  Why not, why not have a revote?

GOV. RENDELL:  ...put that aside...

MR. RUSSERT:  Yeah.  Senator Casey, why not have a revote in Pennsylvania and Michigan?

SEN. CASEY:  Well, I said this...

MR. RUSSERT:  Florida and Michigan?

SEN. CASEY:  When we were being interviewed the other day, I said, "Look, these delegates are going to be seated, and we know that's going to happen." It's really a question for the states themselves, their state legislature, political leadership, the Democratic National Committee, and the campaigns. But all while we're talking about, about, about rules because the rules have been followed by the Obama campaign, and delegates and states, there're a lot of people in Pennsylvania who're scratching their heads, saying, "Why ain't they talking about the issues, about shipping jobs overseas, health care, trade, the things that people in Pennsylvania care about?"

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