'Meet the Press' transcript for April 6, 2008

MR. RUSSERT:  In the Ohio primary campaign, an aide to Senator Obama had met with Canadian officials and talked about the NAFTA, North American Free Trade Agreement, that became a very big story.  We now have a situation with Mark Penn, a key adviser to the President--Senator Clinton.  "Hillary Clinton's chief campaign strategist Mark Penn met with Colombia's ambassador to the U.S. on Monday to discuss a bilateral free-trade agreement, a pact" that presidential candidate Hillary Clinton "opposes.

"A spokesman for Colombia's president said he didn't know if Mr. Penn was representing Sen.  Clinton or Burson-Marsteller"--the company he works for--"which signed a $300,000, one-year contract with the Colombian Embassy in March of '07 for Penn to work on behalf of the trade deal." The Colombian government has now fired Mark Penn.

Governor Rendell, should the Clinton campaign fire Mark Penn?

GOV. RENDELL:  Well, there are a lot of issues in which you can raise that question, Tim.  Yeah, I think you've got to make it very clear when you're someone who's a consultant who you're representing and who you're not representing.  And I would hope that Mr. Penn, when he talked to the Colombians, made that clear.  It doesn't sound that he--like he did, and that's something the campaign should take into question.  But, you know, this business and Senator Obama, etc., look, I know that Hillary Clinton cares about the free trade issue because in 2004 I testified before a committee which she chaired--myself, Governor Granholm from Michigan, Governor Doyle from Wisconsin--about unfair trade practices, China manipulating currency and, and stealing intellectual property, and she was very, very strong on the need for free trade to be fair trade.

MR. RUSSERT:  Give me Barack Obama's path to this nomination.  If he loses in Pennsylvania, what happens?

SEN. CASEY:  Well, I think he can make progress there.  And I think, as I said, I think that helps him throughout the primary season in other states as well as I think it helps him in the fall.  I think, of course, we've got North Carolina and Indiana there.  I don't profess to know what will happen there, but I think he'll do well in both those places.  Whether he'll win both, I don't know.  And then you've got a couple of other contests.  This isn't going to be over, I don't think, the morning after Pennsylvania, but I do think we'll have a better, a better sense of it then.

MR. RUSSERT:  But he has to win some primary before now and June.

SEN. CASEY:  Oh, sure, and I think he will.

MR. RUSSERT:  Governor Rendell, in all candor, what is Hillary Clinton's scenario?  What is her way to the nomination?  She must win Pennsylvania big, fair enough?

GOV. RENDELL:  Yeah, she--well, but big for Pennsylvania, Tim, when you look at history, is somewhere between four and eight, nine points.  That's what's big.

MR. RUSSERT:  And then she--and then two weeks later she must win Indiana and North Carolina.

GOV. RENDELL:  I think she can split in those, and I think she'll win West Virginia and Kentucky by huge amounts, Puerto Rico by huge amounts.  And, again, I think--Bob says polls don't matter and to some extent he's right, but the superdelegates are going to look at the polls, who runs better against John McCain in the crucial electoral states.  And if, in late June, Hillary Clinton is still running far more strongly against McCain in those states than Barack Obama, then I think the superdelegates have to, to look long and hard at making her the nominee.

MR. RUSSERT:  But if, at the convention, there are more elected delegates for Obama and the popular--not counting Michigan and Florida, because it is contested--is Obama, and more state contests for Obama, what do you think? You've been in politics a long time.  What would African-American delegates, young delegates, Obama delegates, do in Denver if the nomination went to Hillary Clinton after they had won more delegates, more states in the cumulative popular vote?

GOV. RENDELL:  Well, again, it would depend on where the popular vote was, what percentage it was.  It would depend on what the electoral college map looked like.  If she still--if she wins Pennsylvania, she'll have an insurmountable lead among states with electoral votes.  I think you can make an argument.  Will some people--if Senator Clinton were to win the nomination, will some people stay at home?  Sure.  But Senator McCain is going to lose some of the far right wing in his party.  If Senator Obama became the candidate, are there some women--and plenty of women say to me they're, they're not voting at all if, if Hillary Clinton's not on the ballot--I think most of those voters will come home.

And Bob Casey and I in Pennsylvania will work either way to make sure that Clinton or Obama voters come back to whoever the nominee is.  Will there be some falloff?  Absolutely.  Will it be disastrous for the party in the, in the fall?  Not necessarily.  I think, because of this long campaign, Senator Obama's a much better candidate.  Compare his debate performances in the last two months compared to the middle of last year.  I think Senator Clinton's a better candidate.  She's become humanized.  People have seen her for the person that she is.  And, and the more they see of her and the more vulnerable she's been and the more she fights back and stands up for herself, the more likable she becomes with voters.  So I think this is, in the long run, going to help us.  Whoever our nominee is, we're going to get behind, and we're going to win big in the fall.

MR. RUSSERT:  Senator Casey, but this is...

SEN. CASEY:  I agree with that.

MR. RUSSERT:  But this is risky.  If Obama was denied the nomination, if he had more elected delegates, cumulative popular vote and contests won, what would happen in Denver and what would happen to the Democratic Party?

SEN. CASEY:  Oh, I think it's, it's a real concern.  But I don't think it's going to happen, Tim.  Superdelegates, elected officials like me are not going to decide this.  The people have been deciding it, and they will.

MR. RUSSERT:  And so they--superdelegates will side with the candidate with the most elected delegates?

SEN. CASEY:  I think they will.

MR. RUSSERT:  We'll find out.  Bob Casey, Ed Rendell together again.  Thanks very much.

Coming next, the night before he died, Martin Luther King Jr. seemed to have a premonition.

(Videotape)

REV. DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.:  And I've seen the promised land.  I may not get there with you, but I want you to know tonight that we, as a people, will get to the promised land!

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT:  We'll be joined by NBC's Tom Brokaw, host of tonight's History Channel documentary "King"; Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, author "April 4th, 1968: Martin Luther King Jr.'s Death and How it Changed America"; and Ambassador Andrew Young, former aide to Martin Luther King Jr. and co-chairman of GoodWorks International.  Coming up next, right here, only on MEET THE PRESS.

(Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT:  The legacy of Martin Luther King Jr. 40 years after his assassination, after this brief station break.

(Announcements)

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