'Meet the Press' transcript for June 22, 2008

MR. BRIAN WILLIAMS:  Our issues this Sunday:  McCain vs. Obama.  The general election in full swing and the debate over public campaign financing takes center stage.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL):  We've made the decision not to participate in the public financing system for the general election.

SEN. JOHN McCAIN (R-AZ):  He has completely reversed himself and gone back not on his word to me, but the commitment that he made to the American people.

MR. WILLIAMS:  With us:  for Barack Obama, former presidential candidate Democratic Senator Joe Biden of Delaware; for John McCain, the campaign's national co-chair, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.  Biden and Graham square off on Obama vs. McCain.

And our Decision 2008 political roundtable, John Harwood of CNBC and The New York Times and Andrea Mitchell of NBC News.

Then, after a sad week of mourning across this country, we look back at the celebrations of the life and legacy of our friend Tim Russert.

But first--and welcome this Sunday morning--our intention is to do the very same broadcast that we had planned before Tim Russert passed away.  Tim was excited about doing this broadcast.  As usual, he had done all the preparation.  So we chose to go ahead with the format and the guests we had scheduled.  We've had new issues, of course, that we've been handed in the interim.

Joining us this morning, Senator Lindsey Graham, Senator Joe Biden.

Gentlemen, we thank you for coming by this Sunday.  Welcome to you both.

SEN. JOE BIDEN (D-DE):  Thank you.  It's kind of strange being here.

MR. WILLIAMS:  We're going to--it is.  And we'll all, we'll all get through this hour.

SEN. BIDEN:  Can I just say one thing quickly?

MR. WILLIAMS:  Yes, Senator.

SEN. BIDEN:  After all the programs that I'd be on with him, we'd sit here and talk about his sons and my sons.  And I want to tell you, Luke meet--met every--I'd never met Luke, but he met every expectation his father ever had of him; an incredible kid, and he should know that.  His father talked about him all the time after the show.

MR. WILLIAMS:  For all the people who've stopped all of us with their condolences about Tim...

SEN. BIDEN:  Geez.

MR. WILLIAMS:  ...wherever the three of us have gone this week...

SEN. BIDEN:  Incredible.

MR. WILLIAMS:  ...the, the thing they've all said is what a spectacular young man Luke Russert is.

To politics and some of the subjects we'll be tackling this morning, first of all the Obama decision not to go with public campaign financing.  And to start us off, a clip from the Democratic debate in Cleveland, Ohio, February of 2008.

(Videotape, February 26, 2008)

MR. TIM RUSSERT:  Well, let me ask you about motivating, inspiring, keeping your word.  Nothing more important.  Last year you said if you were the nominee you would opt for public financing in the general election of the campaign, try to get some of the money out.  You checked "yes" on a questionnaire.

SEN. OBAMA:  (Unintelligible)...politics at worst.

MR. RUSSERT:  So you may opt out of public financing?  You may break your word?

SEN. OBAMA:  What I--what I've said is at the point where I'm the nominee, at the point where it's appropriate, I will sit down with John McCain and make sure that we have a system that works for everybody.

(End videotape)

MR. WILLIAMS:  Senator Biden, that didn't happen.  The two didn't sit down and discuss this.  It's been viewed as a kind of pragmatic, real politic decision.  Senator Russ Feingold came out with a, a statement saying this part of campaign financing wasn't broken, but, in effect, it is now.  Your response on behalf of the candidate?

SEN. BIDEN:  Look, I've been a strong supporter of public financing my, my whole career.  I'm the first guy to introduce a public financing bill to the United States Senate in 1973.  And the purpose was to get big money out of the politics.  The irony is, although he has changed his position--I'm not going to color that, he's changed his position--the fact of the matter is he has 1,400,000 contributors, the vast majority of whom contribute less than a hundred bucks a piece.  So the effect of campaign financing is in place, but it's not campaign financing.

MR. WILLIAMS:  So this is, all because of the structure of the Obama campaign, the support, the support levels they're finding they have on the Internet, a pragmatic decision.

SEN. BIDEN:  Well, yes.  But it's also a substantive decision in that no one major influence can affect Obama.  He has 1,400,000 contributors.  Not one of them could say, "If I don't--if you don't change your mind, I'm withdrawing my support." Whereas with campaigns, the reason I was so--I am so supportive of campaign financing, major interests that are able to accumulate hundreds of thousands, in this case, millions of dollars can say, "Hey, look, you don't change your mind, I leave." So in terms of the downside of his not accepting it in terms of influence and big money, there is no influence or big money in his campaign.  In terms of undermining the public financing idea for everyone, it doesn't help.

MR. WILLIAMS:  But where does this leave public financing?  I mean, is this, is...

SEN. BIDEN:  Well, that's, that's the point.  It, it...

MR. WILLIAMS:  ...the cost of good intentions?

SEN. BIDEN:  Yeah.  It, it, it leaves it a place where it's going to be harder to make the case, to be honest about it.

MR. WILLIAMS:  Senator Graham, does this mean it's broken forever?

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC):  It means his word's broken forever on this issue.  I think that's what it means more than anything else.  You tell people you're going to change this country, you're going to bring about change that people yearn to, to embrace.  Senator McCain supported campaign finance reform at his detriment with Senator Feingold on our side.  It did not go over well, but John did it anyway.  He took a beating to try to change the campaign finance system.  Senator Obama looked in cameras all over the country, literally signed his name, "I will accept public financing," and now, for whatever reason, he has broken his word.  And is it 1.4 million donors that allows you to break your word?  This is reinforcing everything that's wrong with politics.  This is a game changer in terms of the general election.  This will not go unnoticed by the American people...

SEN. BIDEN:  But he did say...

SEN. GRAHAM:  ...and it will not be soon forgotten.

SEN. BIDEN:  Obama did say, "I'm going to be a game changer." He has been a game changer.  Big money is not influencing his campaign.  Major interests are not influencing his campaign.  People who are able to say, "Look, if you don't change your mind, I'm withdrawing, I can affect your decisions," they do not impact on Barack Obama.  He's had this incredible appeal that no one ever anticipated.

SEN. GRAHAM:  I would argue that MoveOn.org has played him like a fiddle on Iraq.  He said, "We'll never vote to cut off funding.  It was a mistake to go in Iraq, but they're there, they need the equipment." MoveOn.org laid down the law, and the next supplemental, "There should be timetables for withdrawal." Within three or four days, he's changed his position on Iraq.  He has played very much to the left.  He has been told what to do by the hard left.  There's a million times--and we will have plenty of time between now and November to talk about how he is captive to the left.

SEN. BIDEN:  That is not true.

MR. WILLIAMS:  Back to your response on campaign fundraising.  You say that he has done this for whatever reason.  We, we know the reason.  It's because of the, the Internet appeal that his campaign found out halfway through.

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