>>
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>>>
we are back at 8:10 now with a touching story of forgiveness. "today" national correspondent
natalie morales
is here with the details of one mother's emotional dilemma. natalie, good morning.
>>
good morning, matt.
victoria
rosner was happily married to her husband,
douglas
. they started a life together, but little did
victoria
know, her life was about to be turned upside down.
>>
douglas
and i met in school. we married about three years later and we had a really intimate marriage. and then when we were ready to start having children, we started seeing a fertility doctor, and at that point, i conceived right away.
>>
reporter: but during
victoria
's pregnancy, their relationship started to change.
>>
douglas
went through what i could only describe as an almost overnight total change in personality.
>>
reporter: then
douglas
moved out.
>>
i just basically wept through the entire pregnancy. i was so hormonal, i was so scared. i didn't know what was going to happen next. in my seventh month,
douglas
served me with divorce papers.
>>
reporter: with her marriage ending,
victoria
had one happy moment. she gave birth to a
baby boy
,
judah
.
>>
he's very upbeat, always smiling, very loving, just kind of a miracle, i think, that he emerged from this chaotic scenario.
>>
reporter:
victoria
moved back to new york with
judah
and began her new life with very little contact with her ex-husband,
douglas
, who had given up custody of his son. but two years later, she got a call with devastating news.
douglas
had cancer and had less than a year to live, and he had one request.
>>
he called me and said that he had always planned to spend more time with
judah
and get to know
judah
, and now he was afraid he wasn't going to have that time, and he wanted to get much, much more involved in
judah
's life. i was just really in a
state of shock
and i almost couldn't accept what was happening. i felt very torn. i felt enormous pity for
douglas
. i also felt some anger that he had walked out on me when i was in a very vulnerable position. and now that he had needs, he was turning around and trying to walk back.
>>
reporter: but in the end,
victoria
brought
douglas
and his son
judah
together.
>>
they just would play games and roll around together, and they would read books, and i just, you know, they really -- they hit it off right away.
>>
reporter: then
douglas
' health took a turn for the worst. he went into a coma. soon after,
douglas
passed away
.
>>
i hope i made the right decision in letting him have that relationship with his father and taking the loss that came with that. and i hope he takes away the idea that he had a father and his father loved him.
>>
and before
douglas
died, he told
victoria
that
judah
was the most incredible child that has ever lived. matt?
>>
all right, natalie, thank you very much.
victoria
rosner is with us this morning. she recently wrote about her story for "the new york times" "
modern love
" column. dr. argie allen is from
drexel university
. ladies, good morning to both of you.
>>
good morning.
>>
good morning.
>>
this is a tough decision. you've got anger, betrayal, all kinds of emotions on this side. you've got human compassion on this side. just walk me through how you came up with the decision you made.
>>
well, matt, from the first, i was so aware that i was making this decision on behalf of
judah
, on behalf of my son, because he wasn't old enough to make it for himself. so, i talked to a lot of people, and some of them said, oh, my god, how could you let him come back after what he did? you know, keep him away. and some said, look, it's his last wish, how do you say no to that? but in the end, what influenced me most was talking to people who had lost parents at an early age.
>>
so, basically, what you're saying is this was as much about, even more about needing your child to c connect to a father than it was about needing to release this anger from yourself and allow forgiveness.
>>
well, i just really thought about what i would say to
judah
when he grew up, and you know, would i say to him, no, i didn't let you have a relationship with your father? i knew that that was something that he would want. and so, i was happy i could give it to him.
>>
and during the process of allowing this relationship between
judah
and your ex-husband, did you come to your own personal forgiveness?
>>
i think it's complicated. i was very angry, but i also felt enormous compassion, and i was happy that in this incredibly tragic situation, i was able to do something to make it better.
>>
argie, what
victoria
is teaching us is that forgiveness doesn't have to be
black or white
. there can be
shades of gray
in forgiveness.
>>
absolutely. it's not
black or white
. it's a
family affair
, and it requires that you do your due diligence to take
time to think
about all the kplexts, as
victoria
said, that is required to ultimately give the greatest gift, and she gave a wonderful gift to her son and to the son's father.
>>
you know, a lot of people talk about forgiveness, they talk a good game, but very few people can actually deliver on their words. and so, why don't we talk a little bit about what forgiveness does not for the person that you're forgiving, but for you. i mean, isn't it -- it has to be, in some cases, a very liberating experience.
>>
it's very. and i always say that it's not forgetting, it's liberating. and so, it doesn't always mean reconciliation. what it means is that you have the ability to release all those toxic emotions and go on to live your
best life
. so, it's the greatest gift that you can give to yourself if you've ever experienced forgiveness.
>>
having gone through this,
victoria
, does it make you now feel as if you have put that episode behind you? closure is a weird word. we overuse it. but did it present a little bit of closure to you?
>>
i think it gave me the opportunity to move on in a certain way, because it was this next chapter in what had happened. i think that something like this never really ends. it just, it goes on and takes different directions. and now, thankfully, i have
judah
, who's the continuation of it and who is such a joy.
>>
and you say at the end of the piece, "i hope i made the right decision for
judah
." at this stage, do you think you made the right decision?
>>
well, you know, i do hope so.
>>
because
judah
has to deal with loss, had to deal with loss.
>>
right, right.
judah
, i think, is much more aware of death than, you know, another 4-year-old would be. he talks about it with me, which i think is great and important, but he's afraid of it sometimes. he'll say things like, "mommy, i want us to die together," you know? and i say, let's not worry about that right now.
>>
but the lesson in this, argie, for others might be what?
>>
ultimately that forgiveness can be the greatest gift that you can give to yourself and your family, and it requires support and a lot of work.
>>
argie, thanks very much.
victoria
, thank you. we appreciate you sharing your story with us.
>>
thank you.
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