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Video: Diagnosing the health of your marriage

  1. Transcript of: Diagnosing the health of your marriage

    MEREDITH VIEIRA, co-host: And we are back at 8:35. This morning on TODAY'S RELATIONSHIPS , the science of a good marriage . Years of research shows that healthy relationships need time, effort and plenty of maintenance. Here's NBC's Josh Mankiewicz.

    JOSH MANKIEWICZ reporting: A poet once said that matrimony is the high sea for which no compass has yet been invented. Why is it that some couples live happily ever after while others sail off in separate directions? New York Times health columnist Tara Parker-Pope went through 40 years of research on marriage and relationships to find out and Tara reports that there's good news about the state of marriage today.

    Ms. TARA PARKER-POPE (Author, "For Better"): Divorce is declining, marriage is stronger.

    MANKIEWICZ: One reason : A lot of modern marriages have two equal partners.

    Ms. PARKER-POPE: We saw in the '50s a very traditional marriage with a male breadwinner and a female homemaker. But people now are choosing partners not only whom they love but people with whom they can really enjoy spending time .

    MANKIEWICZ: So what makes a successful marriage ?

    Dr. GIAN GONZAGA: This is always an interesting moment when they sit there and think about `what nickname am I going to give?'

    MANKIEWICZ: Marriage researchers like psychologist Gian Gonzaga look for clues in the way couples interact. Dr. Gonzaga is one year into a five-year study of 300 couples for the online matchmaking service eHarmony. Newlyweds Carrie and Brad Vineca volunteered to have Dr. Gonzaga observe how they get along.

    Unidentified Woman: This next task is a teasing task.

    Dr. GONZAGA: It's kind of the test of a relationship.

    MANKIEWICZ: Brad and Carrie were given a set of initials and had to come up with a nickname for each other. Carrie had HF .

    Ms. CARRIE VINECA: My nickname for you is Hot Funnyman .

    Mr. BRAD VINECA: Hot Funnyman? What the heck?

    Ms. VINECA: Because you do all your funny voices and it makes me laugh.

    MANKIEWICZ: Brad had L and D.

    Mr. VINECA: Lone Dog.

    Ms. VINECA: That's kind of a serious nickname.

    Mr. VINECA: But how do you feel when you hear that?

    Ms. VINECA: It makes me feel kind of bad sometimes.

    Mr. VINECA: Does it?

    Ms. VINECA: It's hard especially for me because I've been alone for so many years by myself.

    Unidentified Man: Her tease was about love.

    Dr. GONZAGA: Mm-hmm.

    Man: And his was almost criticism.

    Dr. GONZAGA: The implicit tease was `I want us to be closer together.'

    MANKIEWICZ: Weddings are always happy, it's the marriage that follows them that causes so much stress. For TODAY, Josh Mankiewicz, NBC News, Los Angeles.

    VIEIRA: New York Times columnist Tara Parker-Pope is the author of the new

    book, "For Better: The Science of a Good Marriage ." Good morning to you, Tara .

    Ms. PARKER-POPE: Good morning.

    VIEIRA: And you were just telling me as we were watching the piece that this book started when you were going through a divorce yourself and you wondered what went wrong.

    Ms. PARKER-POPE: Exactly. You know, I had been a longtime health writer and I -- if the problem had been diabetes or cancer, heart disease , I would have really understood what I needed to do, but I was in this major life crisis and I didn't really have the answers. So I started on this journey of really going through the social science and psychology literature to find out if there was any evidence to give us advice about marriage , and there's a lot, there's quite a lot.

    VIEIRA: Yeah. Beginning with conventional wisdom that half of marriages end in divorce, and let's throw yours out of there for a second.

    Ms. PARKER-POPE: Sure.

    VIEIRA: Actually when you did the research, you found that number is not correct.

    Ms. PARKER-POPE: You know, it's a myth that there's a 50 percent divorce rate . You know, there is a generation of couples who, you know, were married in the '70s who have come from a very different place and they may in fact be headed toward a 50 percent divorce rate . But couples married today are doing much better. The divorce rate is declining with each generation. You know, it peaked at about 23 per thousand in the '70s, now it's down to 17.

    VIEIRA: So why do we keep hearing that then?

    Ms. PARKER-POPE: You know, it -- there's a -- I think as, you know, journalists, as -- you know, I think we share the blame because we tend to focus on the negative, we tend to focus on the crisis and the problem, but the truth is marriage is quite strong today.

    VIEIRA: There are ways, as you write in your book, to diagnose your marriage , beginning with telling the story of how the two of you met.

    Ms. PARKER-POPE: Yes. It's counterintuitive that something that happened 15, 20 years ago would tell you anything about your life today. And I was very skeptical, but you can -- you can imagine if somebody says, `Well, how did the two of you meet?' and you say, `Oh, we went on this hiking trip and he lost the map and he didn't ask for directions and I'm never going to go -- we never did that again, I'm never going to go hiking again.' That's a different marriage than the person who said, `Oh, we got terribly lost, it was raining, we laughed the whole time. It was crazy. We never went hiking again.' It's the same experience but one is much more positive.

    VIEIRA: Yeah, one's a lot about the "we did this," the other one is "he did that" or...

    Ms. PARKER-POPE: "You did this," "he did that."

    VIEIRA: ..."she did that."

    Ms. PARKER-POPE: Yeah. There's a lot of blame.

    VIEIRA: Also, you say listen to body -- or watch body language . That's really important in the -- when you're telling the story.

    Ms. PARKER-POPE: Well, the thing is there's a -- you know, marriage researchers will put couples in a lab and they'll strap them to tubes and, you know -- you know, heart rate monitors, and we can't do that, I can't sort of have somebody diagnose the fight that I'm having with my partner. But you can see that certain things like eye-rolling, you know, that's a sign of contempt and disdain, it's a very dismissive gesture, you know, turning -- you know, body language , that kind of thing. So if you pay attention to those little details, it can give you some real insights into how you're resolving or not resolving conflict with your partner.

    VIEIRA: Yeah, you talk about fights, and the point of the book is to say that it's not fighting that's the problem...

    Ms. PARKER-POPE: Right.

    VIEIRA: ...it's how you fight .

    Ms. PARKER-POPE: Yeah. I mean, fighting is inevitable. You cannot expect to be in a relationship with somebody and not have arguments from time to time . But it's how you start the argument, it's the tone of your argument, are you complaining, are you criticizing? There are clues throughout the discussion that you can really look for and learn to fight more fairly.

    VIEIRA: So let me five an example. You -- if some -- I say to my husband, `You never want to have sex,' you say that that's a criticism and that's no good, that's a bad thing then.

    Ms. PARKER-POPE: Right. Because you're accusing somebody. But if you say, you know, `I wish that we had more time together, I wish we had more intimacy, you know, that's a legitimate concern and that can start a conversation. You know, another one might be, you know, if your husband doesn't call, you know, saying, `You're irresponsible, I can't trust you,' that's going to be a different argument than `I wish you'd call, I was upset, I was worried about you .'

    VIEIRA: In the book you say once you've gone through the first three minutes of a fight , hang it up because that's when everything is really discussed.

    Ms. PARKER-POPE: Well, if you focus -- what I think is very empowering about this is that your fight may last 30 minutes , but where you really need to focus your energy and your work is the beginning of that fight , it's that first three minutes, it's the tone and it will put you on a path of a productive conflict that actually will help your marriage vs. a conflict that's going to do harm and do damage.

    VIEIRA: What about the couple that never fights and says, ` See , we've got the perfect marriage because we really never engage in that way'?

    Ms. PARKER-POPE: Well, it depends -- you know, there definitely are some couples who don't fight who are happy but a lot -- what they're seeing is that they're seeing a lot of couples around year 14, 15 in the marriage , they've had a very quiet, calm relationship, but then things change and stress hits you and you haven't really learned how to resolve problems. So a little conflict can be quite good for a relationship.

    VIEIRA: A little conflict goes a long way.

    Ms. PARKER-POPE: It does.

    VIEIRA: All right. Tara Parker-Pope , thank you so much for your insight this morning. You're going to be back at 10:00 , I believe, yes, talking with Kathie Lee and Hoda about sex.

TODAY books
updated 5/10/2010 10:58:41 AM ET 2010-05-10T14:58:41

When you recall the details of the beginning of your relationship, is it told with love or tinged with negativity? In her new book “For Better: The Science of a Good Marriage,” Tara Parker-Pope points to a study that shows why it’s important. An excerpt.

Chapter six
How did the two of you meet? Was it love at first sight? Did you date for a long time or was it a whirlwind romance?

Newlyweds and long-married couples often are asked to recount the details of their first date, their courtship, or even the wedding proposal. Perhaps you were high school sweethearts or maybe you met through an online dating service, at the grocery store, or through a blind date arranged by friends.

But what does a story of how you met years ago have to do with how you are getting along with your spouse today? Relationship researchers are keenly interested in hearing how couples met as a way to gauge the quality of their relationship now. But the actual details of the story are far less important than how the two of you tell it. Your personal romantic narrative, as told by you or your partner, is filled with clues about the state of your relationship today and can predict whether trouble looms ahead.

Studies show that each couple’s back story is particularly revelatory about the present state of their relationship. One of the earliest studies of the value of a couple’s “how-we-met” story was published in 1992. John Gottman and his colleagues at the University of Washington took oral histories from fifty-two couples, and their stories were then coded and deconstructed. The couples, who had been married for an average of five years, also took part in laboratory-based discussions in front of cameras and strapped to body monitoring devices. Based on all the evidence the researchers had collected, they already had a pretty clear idea about which couples were happy and those who were headed for divorce.

Three years later, the researchers checked in with the couples again. The researchers had been virtually perfect in their assessments. The how-we-met story had predicted, with 94 percent accuracy, which couples would break up and who would stay together.

The how-we-met story is useful but slightly less predictive in newlywed couples — the relationship is still evolving and couples have yet to settle into a pattern. Even so, talking to a couple about their early romance, even when they are still in the midst of it, can identify potentially troubled relationships. In one study, the researchers collected how-we-met stories from ninety-five newlyweds, and then they checked in again at different intervals for the next nine years.

At the four-to-six-year interval, the how-we-met story had been 86 percent accurate in predicting who would still be together. By the end of the nine-year study, the accuracy of the how-we-met story had slipped to 81 percent. Among the seventy-nine couples who were still married up to nine years later, the researchers had correctly predicted sixty-eight of them would still be together. And the how-we-met story had correctly predicted thirteen of sixteen divorces.

Why is the how-we-met story so important? Typically, the early days of a relationship are the most romantic and the most love-struck. Put us in a brain scanner when we are in the early days of romantic love and we will look like we are crazy or on drugs. The parts of the brain that involve critical thinking are shut down — that’s why we aren’t troubled by obvious flaws like a filthy apartment or lavish spending habits. Meanwhile, our brains are awash in a dopamine surge and we feel dizzy and exhilarated by love. All of the memories we are creating during this time are tinted by the rose-colored glasses of the newly in love. Video: Who’s having the most sex?

And when we are happy in our relationship, we remember the early days with pretty much the same rosy-tinted optimism. But once we become dissatisfied with our partnership, at some point perceptions shift. It’s not that we make up problems that never existed. It just becomes far easier to recall the negatives than the good times. And we end up recasting history to reflect our current state of discontent.

Is the story of your early courtship filled with nostalgia and optimism? Or is it tinged with negativity and regret? Do you remember getting lost in the rain together on your first date? Or do you just remember the fact that he refused to stop for directions?

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Spouses who are in happy marriages often recount the early part of their relationship with laughter, smiles, and nostalgia—even when talking about difficult times like a job loss or financial struggles. Unhappy couples, however, tend to recast their past times together in a decidedly negative light.

For instance, imagine a couple telling the story of the first time a wife visited her future husband’s filthy apartment.

“My goodness, the place was a wreck! Socks everywhere, empty beer bottles. It was definitely a bachelor pad.”

Or she might remember it this way:

“It was disgusting. Even back then, he was a complete slob.”

It’s the same story about the same messy apartment, told two different ways. But it’s clear which wife is happier in her relationship. Video: Is there a science to why couples stray?

Consider my own how-we-met story from my first date with my husband in Austin, Texas. In the early days of my marriage, I would have recounted it this way:

“After dinner, he suggested we take a walk around the Capitol building. I had just had surgery on my foot, but I was having such a good time I didn’t care. I didn’t want to ruin the moment so I went along, hobbling around the Capitol grounds.”

But later, when the relationship began to sour, I sometimes told the story this way:

“After dinner, he suggested we take a walk around the Capitol building. I had just had surgery on my foot. Of course he didn’t even notice that I could barely walk.”

Even though I would often laugh while telling the story, I’m sure an experienced therapist would have clued in to my negativity long before I was even aware of it. And that’s the value of the how-we-met story. In addition to having your partner tell your how-we-met story, listen to yourself and how you tell the story of your early courtship. What you learn will provide a useful snapshot of the state of your marriage today.

Excerpt from "For Better" by Tara Parker-Pope © 2010. Published by Dutton, a member of Penguin Group (USA). Excerpted with permission from the publisher. All rights reserved.

© 2012 MSNBC Interactive

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